Cycling in Melbourne Australia
No clearways for Beach Road (Cyclists "demand to be rewarded for Killing innocent pedestrians"...)
NO Clearways for Beach Road:
And so on…
See also the No Clearway For Beach Road FORUM.
Links provided for information and entertainment purposes only. (You may wish to consider this definition of internet argument before engaging in discussion over at the NCFBR Forum.)
Bicycle Groups have been lobbying the State Government and Bayside Councils for the introduction of Weekend Clearways.
They want to be rewarded for Bad Behaviour
And so on…
See also the No Clearway For Beach Road FORUM.
Links provided for information and entertainment purposes only. (You may wish to consider this definition of internet argument before engaging in discussion over at the NCFBR Forum.)
Tags: beach road, clearway
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ChrisS on -
Rather obvious whoever is responsible for NCFBR hasn't put their name on it, unless it's in terribly small print somewhere.
Unlike the Beach Road Cyclist site, which is, by comparison, upfront & informative regarding this long-running issue.
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Permalink Reply by RobE on
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The interesting thing is that ' Clearways" are not proposed, are not relevant on Beach Rd and would never get a guernsey anyway so the idiot who has wasted their efforts in getting the NCFBR on the web show their complete ignorance, both of the situation, the so called " pedestrian " case they hysterically quote, and forget the number of deaths and injuries to bicycle riders that have occurred over the years whilst dangerous car and trailer parking on Beach Rd in high use cycling times has been allowed and encouraged by Bayside and Kingston City Councils... the stupidity is with the ilk of NCFBR and the Councils for delaying this sensible need and thus I delcare NCFBR deserves a framed " doh" for being dense and bloody minded, bogan even !
Interestingly parking restrictions such as No Parking and No Stopping are now proposed, are sensible and are sought by the Minister for Roads and also Beach Road' s latest fan ,Rexy (I'm really a nice guy) ExCopFisherpersonFooty3yAWnGuy... It is believed extensive Sat and Sun parking and stopping restrictions will be in place for weekends on Beach Road before summer comes around . :)
Ignore ning nongs, common sense will work it out :)
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oh, yeah, and without going into things too deeply in a public forum, I would take issue with two items, in the " manifesto" of NCFBR, the use of the word "innocent" and the addition of an "s" to pluralise a word to suggest more than one...
ahemm as for the first ; contact me off list, those who already know will "know", those who have a "need" to know ( and I will determine that) , I will gladly advise on the misuse and abuse of the term in context of Beach Rd.
as for the "s" not aware of any more than one (again in the context of Beach Rd) ... any one know more/better info fill us in.
Sadly losing count of the number deaths and serious injuries to cyclists on Beach Rd from errant drivers, and parked cars in the left lane and other on road saftey "issues" contributing to same.
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Permalink Reply by Treadly and Me on -
I found the pluralisation both amusing and tragically ironic (for pretty much the same reasons you outline)—and probably the most mischievous part of that screed.
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Permalink Reply by ChrisS on
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Ah..... a perfect example of DIY web site design where Title Case is far funnier than CAPSLOCK. It's akin to having a canned laughter track.
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Permalink Reply by Sam M on -
RobE - you may want to check your facts so you are informed with the correct info. The link that Chris S inserted for Beach Road Cyclists very clearly states that there is a Beach Road Clearway campaign - so who is the ning nong! A clearway and a no stopping zone are technically the same thing and have the same regulations according to the VicRoads website so the campaigns that have been waged is just using a play on words. You also mention about common sense will prevail - yes i think it will but as a resident and a cyclist in the Kingston area , do any of you think about the effect a change to Beach Road regulations will have on the LifeSaving and yacht clubs, the people going to the Parkdale and Ricketts Point cafes as well as residents who live along Beach Road. Oh and in addition what about all of the cyclists who park their cars along Beach Road before they go for a ride - where are you suggesting they park their cars??
I got passed the link for the NCFBR website as a concerned resident in the Kingston area and whilst it looks like a DIY website it does highlight what i see every day whilst riding - bad cycling behavior. The comment "Sadly losing count of the number deaths and serious injuries to cyclists on Beach Rd from errant drivers, and parked cars in the left lane and other on road safety "issues" contributing to same" applies to any road anywhere in the word.
Maybe try brushing up on the road rules may help you in determining what is common sense. Here is the link for your perusal: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/8A00D79B-03C5-4084-B5C2...
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Sorry to dissappoint you, Clearways are defined.. they are not "technically the same" as you put although there is certainly reason to comsider them the same, they arn't... Clearways have a different approval and control mechanism to No Parking and No Stopping controls and thus are less appopriate for Route 33.
It was always a campaign to seek a 'Clearway", however the Minister in no uncertain terms expressed dismay for that term in its application to Beach Rd, as it isnt regarded by him or VicRoads as a road where a defined clearway (which is for weekday Peak Hour commuting traffic management) to apply..., rather one where controls on parking by way of No Stopping and No Parking are more appropriate.
Thus the campaign has changed from one requesting Clearways to one requesting removal of parking approval for sections of Beach Road (Route33) for weekend recreational cycling safety, following cycling volume audits for route 33 conducted by various groups including Bicycle Victoria.
The furure also which arose concerning extending Clearway hours for major commuting routes for motorised vehicles in other parts of Melbourne regarding local trader access for retail trading also created potential fuel for anti cycling lobbyists for Beach Rd another item of sensation when they wish to oppose Beach Rd use as a recreational cycling destination by thousands of Melbourne residents every weekend.
The use of the word " Clearway" by the NCFBR by implication rides on that furore and is a misconception promotion.
The term "Clearway" is not appropriate any more, and the fact that the web site you refer to still uses the word is because it hasnt been updated.to meet the changes that the Minster for Roads Mr Tim Pallas envisages for Beach Rd within the Law.
If you are resident of Kingston and user of Beach Rd as you say and an observer of " incidents" then you will know only too well of the daily safety concerns that parked cars cause to all road users on Beach Road, However on weekends this is exemplified by the volume of cyclsts using Beach Road and there are not too many roads elsewhere in the world which carry the volume of cycling traffic that Beach Rd does on weekends where parking is permitted as it is here at this time.
It is past time for changes to parking on Beach Rd, and it calls for support of measures to improve same.
Councils provide off street parking for Yacht Clubs and Businesses at Ricketts Point, plus side streets. If you dont wish to pay the fee for parking in designated beach side car parks thats too bad. Residents get permits to park there for free anyway.
Too many resident on Beach Rd have ample parking on their properties and choose not to use it for whatever reason.Of all the riders I know ( and there are many) who drive to the area and park then ride none park on Beach Rd,
These days there are ample reasons for people to ride more and walk more.. Im sorry but I dont get your argument about accommodating cars for parking on Beach Rd at all during peak demand cycling periods, because they are the only times such limits are sought leaving ample times on weekends and during the week for your interests of parkdale yach Club and Cafe to be accommodated for car drivers who feel the need to park on the roadway.
I live in Bayside City Council area, I have visited just about every business on Beach Road in Kingston and bayside regularly my 10 years here, I have never parked a car on Beach Rd on weekends and it has never caused me any concern about accessing eg: the Parkdale cafe ( which I visit a lot) or trips to the Beach clubs and other bay facillities... I dont get your argument at all.
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Permalink Reply by Sam M on
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RobE - just trying to get the other side of the issue discussed. You may be interested that most of the audits were carried out in winter when the number of cars and bikes are reduced so you may want to call for some proper audits to be conducted for a more accurate view. The only danger to parked cars are people on two and four wheels who are not following the road rules and who are doing something that they shouldnt- i have had no incident on Beach Road however have witnessed many groups of cyclists who use both lanes on Beach Road and do not ride 2 abreast.m The issue again is not the individual riders but the ones who ride in the packs.
In regards to parking in the side streets, you are widening the group of people beyond Beach Rd residents and businesses/sporting clubs that will object to any change of road regulation as why would i want to have mine or your street blocked by cars, and causing even more of a road issue? I'm sure you would be the first person to object to someone blocking your driveway.
In regards to Beach rd residents having ample parking - again you are using general terms.. if you look along Beach Road there are nuymberous units and townhouses that dont have ample parking. Maybe stick to more factual comments.
There is no reason why cyclists require special consideration as they are users of a road, ride sensibly like the majority of recreation riders. If we as cyclists need special consideration, then we should get registration plates for the bikes so anyone caught breaking the law can bear the consequenses.
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Im not sure I get your bona fides in your representations.
I don't think anyone in MC who rides Route 33 is not aware of the danger parked cars represent or the fact that if they ( the riders) wished to excercise their rights under the Road Rules, to use the outside lane when any parked car occupies the innner lane they would create a Route 33 that only bicycle riders could use. Cars would be travelling the full length of Route 33 at around 30kl/hour or less)
At this point in time riders place themselves at risk by riding in the kerbside lane when it is containing parked cars, but they do so out of courtesy not out of obligation.
The last BV audit was done in September 08 ( same weekend every year) not exactly Winter as you put it... have a look at this site. for a neat summary of Route 33 and the issues. A High Summer Audit would blow your mind and lead to a dedicated Beach Road for Bicycles on weekend mornings IMHO, so be greatful that isnt being sought at this time.
Also you seem to be suggesting No Parking is for long periods, but in fact it is requested from 6 am and into the morning hours, only, leaving ample time for businesses, sporting facillites and tourists, boat users etc, to find a place to park ON Becah Rd on weekends... your arguments dont hold water and run counter to all Counicl Officers and Independant Professional Consultants reports to Councils to date. The delay was caused by a reaction to the unfortunate death of James Gould.No death is acceptable, but more deaths have occurred on beach Road for cyclists in recent years than we would care to consider and most were avoidable save for errant driving or kerbside parking, Being car doored is not nice, Ive had it happen to me and I dont releish the thought of being split open by a car door again.
In documented reports Kingston city does very little to assist cycling issues in its area, iand this is repeated time and again in its annual reports report tabled at Road Safe Inner South East , Bayside at least did upgrade some paths bike lanes and establish refrence groups and better facillties. Read down to the Individual City reports on what they each do to assist road safety.
Again as I say I doubt your bona fides here, you are wildly accusing riders who assemble in groups, you wrongly assert information regard unit parking, all units are built with visitor and off street parking persuant to building codes, to meet the unit building demands to avoid on street parking, and I dont see the relevance of parking blocking driveways in this discussion, but in any event it is an offence under the Road rules to block access to property by parking across a driveway, and Counicl and Police can enforce such offences
You appear to have an anti-cycling agenda in your theme, and your reference to needing registration for riders bears this out.
Are you sure you are not NCFBR in disguise pushing a barrow here?
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