Cycling in Melbourne Australia
The ban that got through in January - no bikes on vline buses!
Government's attempted bike-bans in January were later reversed after reaction from the cycling public.... but not all of them.
One of the "ban" policy decisions made in January was to ban bicycles from Vline buses. All fo the publicity that occured in the following 2 months focused so much on vline trains and met trains, that no one commented on the buses. In fact, Vline didnt publicise this decision and the Minister didnt refer to it in her press releases.
However, if you visit the vline site now, it says "Generally, V/Line coaches do not carry bicycles, surfboards, surf skis...". it goes on to provide an exceptino for surfboards - but doesnt identify an exceptino for bikes.
For many years I have taken my bike on country buses and never had a problem. Vline staff have always given the policy of "in general you'll be fine. However, don't forget its at the discretion of thedriver subject to space" (fair enough).
now, its "NO".
if we allow this policy to stay, the bikes-on-buses agenda wont come up. we'll lever look at the potential for buses to put bikes in a trailer or to put bike racks on them (as they do in Canberra and NZ for example).
What do you think?
What should we do to lobby?
Email the Minister - I have!
Oct 9 - I've now seen a reply on behalf ofthe Minister that says "Bicycles have not been permitted on V/Line coaches for some considerable time and no changes have been made to this policy." On the other hand, Vline's staatement to me was that this policy was brought in in January this year.
One of the "ban" policy decisions made in January was to ban bicycles from Vline buses. All fo the publicity that occured in the following 2 months focused so much on vline trains and met trains, that no one commented on the buses. In fact, Vline didnt publicise this decision and the Minister didnt refer to it in her press releases.
However, if you visit the vline site now, it says "Generally, V/Line coaches do not carry bicycles, surfboards, surf skis...". it goes on to provide an exceptino for surfboards - but doesnt identify an exceptino for bikes.
For many years I have taken my bike on country buses and never had a problem. Vline staff have always given the policy of "in general you'll be fine. However, don't forget its at the discretion of thedriver subject to space" (fair enough).
now, its "NO".
if we allow this policy to stay, the bikes-on-buses agenda wont come up. we'll lever look at the potential for buses to put bikes in a trailer or to put bike racks on them (as they do in Canberra and NZ for example).
What do you think?
What should we do to lobby?
Email the Minister - I have!
Oct 9 - I've now seen a reply on behalf ofthe Minister that says "Bicycles have not been permitted on V/Line coaches for some considerable time and no changes have been made to this policy." On the other hand, Vline's staatement to me was that this policy was brought in in January this year.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ChrisS on -
Top 10 attractions in RACV's Victoria 101 campaign
1. Drive the Great Ocean Rd
2. Audax Alpine Classic
3. Ford Discovery Centre
4. Wilsons Promontory
5. Walhalla - Experience the rich history
6. The Blues Train Queenscliff
7. Skandia Week Geelong
8. Grampians National Park
9. View of Mt Sturgeon from the Royal Mail Hotel
10. Great Victorian Bike ride
In case anyone needs reminding - the Audax Alpine Classic is in the N-E. It's also Brights biggest weekend of the year.
Yet another case of bureaucrats being none too bright in the brain department when it comes to regional & stakeholders requirements -
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy on -
So what's the current status with bikes on buses between Seymour and Albury? Still possible?
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Permalink Reply by RobE on
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pointless asking V-Line you will get their " policy" line... better to seek info from the coach contractors depending which one is on the route on the day... the two Wangaratta Coach companies up that way are Wangaratta Coaches and Cullens
I think Wang Coaches do the bulk of the Seymour/Albury V-line work.and most other V-Line stuff in NE Vic.
per this advice from Wang Council re line upgrade and transport arrangements they re-state the V-Line stupidity statement that bicycles are not permitted on coaches during the works -see general info at end..( how wonderful)
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Permalink Reply by Andy on
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Hmm..
I talked to Wang' buslines recently. They still do Corowa to Wang - but will no longer take bikes from Wang to Melbourne - apparently after a group of cyclists refused to follow the bus driver's directions about putting their bikes on the bus. I'm not sure why the distinction between the Corow-Wang route and the Wang-Melb (other than perhaps volume). The council attitude seems to be spit - there's certainly some supporters of bikes on buses (such as the council rep for the rail trail).
Overall though - for a government that says its committed to bikes (and paying for lots of free ones in the city), they're not very committed to bike tourism in the country -
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy on
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Yeah it's quite lousy that they introduced this ban right in time for the track replacement to Albury. It seems that if you want to see regional Victoria now, it's almost essential to own a car, except for a small number of places where there happens to be trains. There'd certainly be a great number more places to see if you could take a bike by coach.
Well I was hoping to just spend a day in Wangaratta. I could take XPT though I think that costs $12.10 each way for the bike? That's more than double a concession V/Line fare for the same journey. -
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Obviously the Minister isnt up to the job, they are both wrong, whatever the Policy WAS or IS, it is not meeting the needs of customers, of V-Lines potential, of the needs of the economies of Rural Victoria and is in direct conflict with the practical day to day operations of V-Lines Coach contractors and serves no purpose in its present form other than to be a bloody minded approach to a beurocacy that cannot act with reason or aforethought for the consequnces of anything it does... the Policy is ludicrous, archaic, totally unreasonable and re-inforces that this minister is out of touch, and is not forward thinking, or proactive, but prefers to rely on misinformation from advsors who have got it wrong and continue to get it wrong... its time for a change of both the Minister and the Policy that's the BOTTOM LINE !.
There is great info in Treadly & Me's blog on Bicycle Tourism in Victoria, check it out here
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Permalink Reply by Andy on
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A further update again... I offered Adrian (a rep from Dept of Transport) the opportunity to comment on my summary of our conversation...
* Vline doenst want a booking system or payment for bikes - we tried that a
few years ago. It didnt work
Adrian::"We haven't previously tried a booking system, we did previously try
charging for bikes and that didn't work"
* Bike racks on buses don't work. Brisbane is already removing many of
theirs.
Adrian "Perhaps more correct to say that the Brisbane experience has been
unsucessful with the number of bikes carried. That's not my personal view -
I like racks on buses, which is why I was surprised that BV didn't support
it."
* Bicycle Victoria doesnt support bike racks on buses (I'm following this
up with BV)
Adrian: "BV's position as articulated with me is that they don't see it as a
priority, and that funding should be directed to other items."
* We don't want to implement a policy that leaves passengers with any
uncertainty about being able to travel (e.g. "you may be able to put your
bike - on but subject to space")... When I pointed out that this is arleady
the case with Velocity trains, the rep' said "Yes - and we don't like it"
Adrian:"Correct - might be appropriate to point out the problems caused by cyclists
being pushed off trains to wait for the next one."
* Passengers are a priority - we're not going to take bikes on buses if it
jeopardizes the potential for a passenger to travel. I pointed out that I
couldn't quite see the logic on this one - at which point he changed the
example to MET trains (where apparently a bike o a peak hour train may take
up sufficient space for 5 passengers) - but I still don't see how it
applies to Vline buses!?
Adrian:"It applies because we use a range of buses on V/Line services, and when we
have a full load of passengers, with luggage, there may not be space to
carry bikes, passengers and luggage (remembering that you might have three
or four bikes turn up - many cyclists travel in small groups of 3 to 5
people)"
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I'm disapointed that we live ina society where Government doesnt want to make "common sense" policy - but instead has to have hard-line blac-and-white policy. As PTUA said shen I rasied the bikes-on-buses policy (and pointed out the poicy that had effectively been in place for years ("yes - but at the driver's discretion subject to space"): thats common sense - it works - banning bikes isnt sensible.
Regarding Dept Transport's perspective above, I'd love to see some real figures on this. The "pushing bikes off Velocity trains", the concept of buses so full of luggage that passangers are rejected...
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one wonders how much these staffers are prepared to use commonsense over the hardline of some superior with an agenda set against accomodating bicycles.
There would be no luggage problem whatsover if every V-Line Coach service had a small trailer... the vehicles have the spec to deal with a trailer and many such vehicles across Australia are fitted with a towing eye. If the load is bigger than expected , hitch a trailer, if not, then it isnt needed and stays in the shed... simple.
BV only ventures into supporting anything if it can see a dollar or PR outcome in it for itself... to say they have priorities is an understatemant...they prioritise every issue on the basis of what can it do for BV, if it can't directly benefit BV then BV is ambivalent if not downright in opposition to the proposition, no matter what it is...That is why BV does NOT represent the interests of Victoria's cyclists and is a waste of time invovling it in any discussions on bicycle infrastructure for the greater good. If it can find a bean counter negative to sdpport its own agenda, no matter what the positives are it will amplify that... Brisbane Bikes on Buses and the Bikes on Trains and Cages at Stations over lockers are prime examples, there are plenty more eg: Carlton's Shopping Square Bike Parking Snake rails are top of list...
arggh!...
The Brisbane Bike experience was badly managed, the wrong routes selected and the routes that needed racks either didnt get enough or didnt get them at all, it wasnt under-utilised, it was under planned, under managed and deliberately designed to fail in the eys of bean counters and BCC political masters and changes. Let them DOI and DoT) look at ACTion buses for a prime example of a well implemented Australian Bikes on Buses success story, and for overseas best practice on Bikes on Buses and Bus routes and infrastructure that works in favour of passengers first, look at Boulder Colorado...
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Permalink Reply by Andy on
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Thanks for that. When i get a tick I'll look up the bikes-on-buses examples you've noted. i intend to keep writing to the Minister (as well as opp Minister, other reps, PTUA, BV and Vline)... the more its written up with some decent research, the better chance i've got they'll listen.
thoght... it'd be good to find a journalist who'll write this up at some point.. Some (mainstram) media always helps.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Parker on -
Bike racks on the front of buses are really taking off in the US. for example According to a Nov. 8th News article,
"The Detroit Department of Transportation is set to receive more than $500,000 in federal money to install bike racks on the fronts of all city buses. The DDOT bus fleet would follow other local bus lines in installing bike racks under the buses' windshields. The intent is to extend travel options for bus riders, especially those without easy and affordable access to cars. 'This is definitely something we've urged DDOT to do for a number of years to increase the usability for their service,' said Megan Owens, executive director of the advocacy group Transportation Riders United. 'It really expands the area people can get to."'
"The $680,000 project would be paid for by $528,000 in federal funds and a $151,000 match from DDOT, according to the Michigan Department of Transportation. Until the money is in hand, DDOT officials won't say how long it will take to fit its 472 buses. In September, DDOT began a pilot program and installed $1,200 racks on six buses that run along the No. 40 Russell line. Officials of SMART -- the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation -- said racks they installed on all routes in 2004 have expanded ridership..."
Expanding ridership is the key issue and bus managements have always been negative in their approach to any innovation. I attended a transport conference ten years ago and raised the issue of bikes being put on buses in the US. Several bus company senior staff who been to the US told me it could not possibly work. These gormless clowns could not see the potential and the fact that there are now around 40,000 buses in the US with bike racks.
However all that is going to change in late 2009 it will have once the relevence of the November 12 report released by the International Energy Agency sinks in to our dumb pollies brains.
The agency struck a new tone of urgency in the report, as it sharply reduced its outlook for the growth of world oil production.
The opening paragraph was blunt and on the mark:
"The world's energy system is at a crossroads. Current global trends in energy supply and consumption are patently unsustainable - environmentally, economically, socially. But that can - and must - be altered; there's still time to change the road we're on.[1] It is not an exaggeration to claim that the future of human prosperity depends on how successfully we tackle the two central energy challenges facing us today: securing the supply of reliable and affordable energy; and effecting a rapid transformation to a low-carbon, efficient and environmentally benign system of energy supply. What is needed is nothing short of an energy revolution."
For the first time, the IEA included in its analysis a study of the depletion rates of the world's top 800 oil fields.
The following links to IEA World Energy Outlook 2008 report is below:-
Main page: http://www.iea.org/weo/
Executive Summary: http://www.iea.org/weo/docs/weo2008/WEO2008_es_English.pdf
Key graphics: http://www.iea.org/weo/key_graphs_08/WEO_2008_Key_Graphs.pdf
Press release: http://www.iea.org/Textbase/press/pressdetail.asp?PRESS_REL_ID=275
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Permalink Reply by ChrisS on
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*Cough*
Bicycles on Ballarat train services ~ 28 - 29 Nov & 7 Dec
19-Nov-2008
Carriage of bicycles cannot be guaranteed due to special event arrangements.
In 2008 the Great Victorian Bike Ride starts and finishes at Lake Wendouree in Ballarat.
With this event attracting 4200 participants, and train travel to Ballarat already at record levels, V/Line advises that carriage of bikes cannot be guaranteed on normal train services to Ballarat on Friday and Saturday 28-29 November and from Ballarat on Sunday 7 December.
As a result, V/Line and Bicycle Victoria have developed a package for participants who wish to travel on the train.
Advice to Great Victorian Bike Ride participants
Bicycle Victoria and V/Line have worked together to arrange a special truck to transport bikes from Melbourne to Ballarat and back to allow more people to travel by train.
With special arrangements in place for this event, it is essential that all bikes are booked onto Bicycle Victoria's truck.
This option is only available to purchase from Bicycle Victoria (new window), it is not available to book via V/Line ticket outlets.
Packaged train and bike transfer bookings to and from Ballarat are filling fast.
Participants' bicycles will not be permitted on trains to Ballarat on Friday and Saturday 28-29 November and from Ballarat on Sunday 7 December.
Bicycle transport on trains at all other times is subject to space being available and the conductor’s discretion to ensure other passengers are not inconvenienced.
View details on the special train / bicycle truck arrangements for this event.
Advice to other Ballarat line passengers with bicycles (non-participants)
Passenger numbers on normal train services to and from Ballarat are expected to be high due to the abovementioned event. This means space will be limited on train services and preference will be given to passsenger seating and normal travel luggage.
As a result, V/Line advises that carriage of bicycles on trains cannot be guaranteed and may be declined by the conductor if space does not permit on trains:
* heading to Ballarat on Friday and Saturday 28-29 November; and
* departing Ballarat on Sunday 7 December.
View details of V/Line's normal carriage of bicycle rules.
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